Who knew...

"Amoore100" (amoore100) 10/15/2016 at 23:47 • Filed to: Good Night, Renault, MPV, Espace, Scenic, Modus

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...that in 2009, if you were in the market for a MPV, Renault could offer you the following options:

The Modus and Grand Modus

The Scenic and Grand Scenic

The Espace and Grand Espace

Now that’s a lot of tall-five doors!

Interestingly, this lineup lasted from 2008 to 2012, when the Modus was discontinued. Today, with the rampant crossover-craze, only the Scenic remains a true MPV, with the Captur replacing the Modus and the Espace being marketed as a Chevy Traverse-like monster.

Funny how market tastes change, isn’t it. Anyways, good night everyone!

Svend > Amoore100 10/16/2016 at 00:06

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Sir, sir, I knew sir.

The Modus was quite popular in the U.K. with the older generation who found it easier to get in and out of with it’s higher seating position. It was of similar size to the Ford Focus and so wasn’t too big to manouveur about.

Scenic sales tailed off with this model year Scenic as older Scenics kept going and some that were in the market for a new one, looked elsewhere.

The Espace was discontinued with this model in the U.K. (sales of the Espace weren’t great for some time in the U.K.), the new Espace is LHD only (as are a couple of other Renaults)

Probenja > Amoore100 10/16/2016 at 00:11

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Isn’t Ford making like 5 current MPVs? You have the B-Max, C-Max, Grand C-Max, S-Max and Galaxy.

Cé hé sin > Amoore100 10/16/2016 at 05:45

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Me!

I hired a Modus once.

bhtooefr > Probenja 10/16/2016 at 07:54

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Don’t forget the Tourneo Courier, Tourneo Connect, and maybe the Tourneo Custom (or is that too big to be considered a MPV?)

Meanwhile in the US, Ford’s only minivan is the Transit Connect Wagon (read: had they called it the Tourneo Connect, it would have required separate certifications, but as a sub model of the Transit Connect cargo van, it didn’t).

Probenja > bhtooefr 10/16/2016 at 08:55

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I’d say they are MPVs, only that they are more van based than car based, in south america you often see families traveling in the family versions of the Peugeot Partner or Citroen Berlingo.

bhtooefr > Probenja 10/16/2016 at 08:58

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Although the Courier and Connect are on the Fiesta and Focus platforms respectively...

The Transit Custom appears to be related to the full-size Transit though...

Amoore100 > Cé hé sin 10/16/2016 at 13:36

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Was it as nice as Top Gear promised?

Cé hé sin > Amoore100 10/16/2016 at 14:33

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It was fine. Nothing good of any note, nothing bad of any note either.

Looked just like this. For some reason most of them were this colour.

Amoore100 > Svend 10/16/2016 at 14:59

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Interesting note about the Modus, that’s probably what made the xB so popular among seniors here stateside...

Any word on the Grand Modus? It seems kind of pointless to me, seeing as the space increase was probably minimal for the price.

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Anyways, it seems odd that the Scenic dropped off in popularity with the Scenic III since it’s rather handsome (for an MPV) and is pretty much the safest family MPV around.

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Also, I found it odd that Renault discontinued the Espace in the UK; for many years, it has been said that families in the UK have the most children, and the Espace is the only thing that can seat 6 or 7 with still some semblance of cargo space.

Compared with the Galaxy, it seems comparable.

Svend > Amoore100 10/16/2016 at 15:14

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I never saw any Grand Modus I’m afraid. I forgot there even was one.

The Scenic and the Espace were replaced by the Ford Galaxy (aka VW Sharan aka SEAT Alhambra) in many driveways along with the Citroen Picasso and the Vauxhall Zafira.

Though the Scenic was a nice car it had some reliability issues and I guess it was a victim of it’s own earlier success in that they were quite common and people wanted something different.

The Espace was quite expensive compared to the Ford, VW and SEAT triplets. The VW was the most expensive with the Ford being a couple of thousand cheaper and the SEAT being marginally cheaper still even though they were essentially the same car, built in the same factory with the same engines.

Svend > Amoore100 10/16/2016 at 15:21

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The new Scenic out soon should change the pattern I’d think. The Scenic and Grand Scenic both look great.

Scenic (advert)

Grand Scenic

Amoore100 > Cé hé sin 10/16/2016 at 15:22

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So you’re saying it wasn’t Note worthy?

Bad pun, I know...

Amoore100 > Svend 10/16/2016 at 15:30

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There you are, then. No wonder it lasted only four years.

Is the Picasso or Grand Picasso more common? The Picasso seems kind of pointless to me since it’s only a five-seater and isn’t quite as well proportioned as the Grand.

Very true, kind of like how the Jeep Cherokee invented the compact unibody SUV here in the US but is far from the best-seller in the category today.

Is there anything Galaxy-sized on the market then outside of the Sharan and Alhambra, now that Ford and VW are no longer building them together? The Grand Picasso, Grand Scenic, and Zafira are notably smaller so it seems that those are your only three choices when it comes to a spacious 7-seater.

Amoore100 > Svend 10/16/2016 at 15:31

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Indeed, they pick up where the Espace left off. It’s kind of unfortunate though that this isn’t what the new Espace looks like since this would be more true to the lineage of the nameplate, but it’s not my brand image to worry about so I’ll just stay out of it...

Svend > Amoore100 10/16/2016 at 15:48

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The Picasso is still quite a common sight though, again the Grand Picasso is less so. Few people need more than five seats and people in the U.K. and Europe tend to buy what they need rather than buy something a bit larger in case they may need more space. We tend to buy what we need and should we need a bit more room, we compact things in more tightly or we leave something out.

There is still the VW Sharan and SEAT Alhambra twins, The Kia Carens, Vauxhall Zafira Tourer (quite different from the old Zafira), Ford S-Max (Galaxy really with a bit more design looks), etc...

There are many slightly smaller and some larger up to the van type vehicles made into people carriers like the Ford Transit Custom Tourno, VW Transporter, Vauxhall Vivaro Combi (aka Renault Trafic Passenger aka Fiat Scudo), Mercedes Vito Tourer, Toyota Proace (aka Peugeot Traveller aka Citroen Spacetourer). The last three and the Transporter are more in between the large MPV and seated vans.

Svend > Amoore100 10/16/2016 at 15:57

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The new Espace (not available in RHD) is only slightly larger than the Grand Scenic coming soon.

This video is easier to watch than Thomas on Autogefuhl.

Amoore100 > Svend 10/16/2016 at 16:10

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So you guys are the opposite of Americans! One kid? Better get a Sienna!

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Yeah, the lines between the so-called “partial” seven seaters and full-time seven seaters is blurring more and more with all these ‘Grand’ variants.

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Very true, I forgot about the van alternatives for people who need true people carrying space.

The Spacetourer isn’t bad as far as vans go...

Svend > Amoore100 10/16/2016 at 16:36

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Yes, quite the opposite. People tend to start with small cars, then after their first child they’ll keep it till the child is a little older, then get a larger car, if more than one young child they may go for a larger car sooner, when the kids are older go for something like an estate, if more than two children they may go for a small MPV or SUV.

I’m partial to the Ford Transit Custom Tourneo.

The one below is the long wheelbase but comes in short wheel base and two heights.

RT > Amoore100 10/19/2016 at 17:25

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Renault wasn’t the only brand making lots of people carriers in the late 00s…

Bonus points if you can name them all without a Google search.

All of these were on sale in 2009, and this is not even including stuff like the Berlingo.

RT > Amoore100 10/19/2016 at 17:41

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Can confirm this whole small MPV trend, though it wasn’t always like this.

Back in the 00s or so I remember this magazine called ‘Top Gear Test Drive Directory’ where they had reviews of every car on the market. The magazine was divided into categories for every type of car. They used to have one for fullsize MPVs, but at some point it was removed, because there were hardly any of them left for sale. Quite a contrast after the sudden influx of them in the 90s.

I’d argue that it’s mainly the crossovers that ate into the market as well as the smaller MPVs which got increasingly bigger over time (Scenic -> Grand Scenic etc). I saw a VW Touran next to a Sharan the other day and I could hardly tell the difference.

The current Galaxy and maybe, at a stretch, the Chrysler Voyager (Town & Country) seem to be picking up steam - but they look like they’re the last popular ones left here.

Amoore100 > RT 10/19/2016 at 18:50

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Of course I can, you underestimate my capabilities!

Top to bottom:

C3 Picasso

Xsara Picasso

C4 Picasso

Grand C4 Picasso

C8

Anyways, are you sure the Xsara Picasso was on sale in Europe in ‘09? I thought it had been discontinued and was only for developing markets by then, and thus the C4 Pic was its successor.

Anyways, I’ve always thought the C8 was the best looking Eurovan, especially over its French brother the 807.

I just love the Cit’s crease down the middle of the hood, although the seating arrangement in the Sevel-Nord vans left something to be desired...

By 2009 pretty much every American minivan had fold-flat third row seats. Why don’t you have this, Europe?!

Amoore100 > RT 10/19/2016 at 19:04

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That’s interesting, definitely underlines the cultural and geographic differences between you and us.

You have to remember, even the massive-for-Europe Premacy was regarded as “too small” for us Americans, and the four cylinder wasn’t enough for us to launch our vans to 60 on the highways in around 7 seconds as most contemporary minivans do (our eleven year old Odyssey does it in 8.5, so it isn’t exactly blistering).

I’d put the Sharan and the Alhambra at Galaxy-size as well. The old Galaxy was bigger than the S-Max, but is there any difference between the two now, aside from just a nameplate?

Looks like American “mini”vans are still way bigger. The new Ody is 5,154 mm whereas the Sharan is only 4,850 mm.

RT > Amoore100 10/19/2016 at 19:48

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Yeah, they’re bigger alright. America has bigger roads, bigger everything really. After experiencing both a Corolla Verso and a rental Sienna, one was for sure a lot different to the other. I was just showing how the smaller Euro minivans became the new ‘bigger’ Euro minivans.

As for the S-Max and Galaxy, they are separate cars but share some parts of course. The S-Max is a tad smaller and meant to be seen as the driver’s choice I guess. I remember the original S-Max was praised for that by the press, but it’s still another minivan in the end.

Also if you look into the Galaxy’s origins, I think you may have an idea for a new Ridiculous Rebadges. ;)

RT > Amoore100 10/19/2016 at 19:55

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Nice capabilities!

And yep, that was a typo, I meant 2008. They made the Xsara Picasso for a bit longer than usual because it sold like hot cakes, though recently they’re not as common

After being inside American minivans myself, I must admit the Sevel-Nord vans did miss out on practicality with the seats. Also I agree, the C8 looked miles better than the 807 (although I like the look of the Italian vans too, if only it wasn’t for their gaudy front ends).

Amoore100 > RT 10/19/2016 at 21:01

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Ah, makes sense. Basically the whole luxury vs sports marketing thing going on there. And yes, perhaps someday I’ll cover the history of the least reliable Volkswagens and Fords ever made!